Forum Oficjalnego Klubu Mitsubishi - MitsuManiaki

[NygusUK]

Witam, czy stosował ktoś może taki oto olej:

http://www.eurocarparts.c...937fcaff5f&EOLU

[swinks_UK]

A nie szkoda ci silnika na pół-syntetyk?

Oleje polecam z tej strony:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/

[NygusUK]

Biorąc pod uwagę, ze mój roczny przebieg to aż 5,000 mil (bardzo spokojna jazda i łagodne zimy), czy jest sens wlewać pełen syntetyk?

[swinks_UK]

Jak najbardziej jest.

[NygusUK]

Poproszę o naświetlenie sprawy (NB: taki olej był lany do tej pory)...

[swinks_UK]

Info za stroną Club VR4:
"Are synthetics better?

The basic benefits are as follows:

Extended oil drain periods
Better wear protection and therefore extended engine life
Most synthetics give better MPG
They flow better when cold and are more thermally stable when hot
Esters are surface-active meaning a thin layer of oil on the surfaces at all times

If you want to know the reasons why then please read on but, warning - Long Post!

Stable Basestocks

Synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less internal and external friction than petroleum oils which have a non-uniform molecular structure.
The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant.

Higher Percentage of Basestock

Synthetic oils contain a higher percentage of lubricant basestock than petroleum oils do.
This is because multi-viscosity oils need a great deal of pour point depressant and viscosity improvers to operate as a multigrade.
The basestocks actually do most of the lubricating. More basestocks mean a longer oil life.

Additives Used Up More Slowly

Petroleum basestocks are much more prone to oxidation than synthetic oils. Oxidation inhibitors are needed in greater quantities in petroleum oils as they are used up more quickly.
Synthetic oils do oxidize, but at a much slower rate therefore, oxidation inhibiting additives are used up more slowly.

Synthetic oils provide for better ring seal than petroleum oils do. This minimizes blow-by and reduces contamination by combustion by-products. As a result, corrosion inhibiting additives have less work to do and will last much longer in a synthetic oil.

Excellent Heat Tolerance

Synthetics are simply more tolerant to extreme heat than petroleum oils are. When heat builds up within an engine, petroleum oils quickly begin to burn off. They are more volatile. The lighter molecules within petroleum oils turn to gas and what's left are the large molecules that are harder to pump.
Synthetics have far more resistance as they are more thermally stable to begin with and can take higher temperatures for longer periods without losing viscosity.

Heat Reduction

One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils.

Less friction means less heat and heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.

Greater Film Strength

Petroleum motor oils have very low film strength in comparison to synthetics. The film strength of a lubricant refers to it's ability to maintain a film of lubricant between two objects when extreme pressure and heat are applied.
Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 5 to 10 times higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity.
Even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, an sae 30 or 40 synthetic will typically have a higher film strength than an sae 50 or sae 60 petroleum oil.

A lighter grade synthetic can still maintain proper lubricity and reduce the chance of metal to metal contact. This means that you can use oils that provide far better fuel efficiency and cold weather protection without sacrificing engine protection under high temperature, high load conditions. Obviously, this is a big plus, because you can greatly reduce both cold temperature start-up wear and high temperature/high load engine wear using a low viscosity oil.

Engine Deposit Reduction

Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. They're better than they used to be, but it still occurs.
Deposit build-up leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the chance of costly repairs.
Synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability and they leave engines virtually varnish, deposit and sludge-free.

Better Cold Temperature Fluidity

Synthetic oils do not contain the paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life.

Improved Fuel Economy

Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils are tremendous friction reducers. Less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance.
This means that more energy released from the combustion process can be transferred directly to the wheels due to the lower friction. Acceleration is more responsive and more powerful, using less fuel in the process.

In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. The engine loses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones.
Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off and when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected.

Synthetics are better and in many ways, they are basically better by design as they are created by chemists in laboratories for a specific purpose."

i tutaj:
"This post may seem like going back to basics but we are constantly surprised by the amount of people who do not know or understand what is written on a bottle of oil and therefore have no idea of what they are looking for, buying or using.
This post should help as a basic guide, for more detailed information contact us and we will be happy to help.
So, to be blunt about the subject, if a bottle of oil does not contain the following basic information then DO NOT buy it look for something that does!
1) The purpose for which it is intended (i.e. Motor oil, Gear oil etc)
2) The viscosity (i.e. 10w-40, 5w-30 etc for Motor oils and 80w-90, 75w-90 etc for Gear oils)
3) The specifications that it meets (should contain both API and ACEA ratings)
4) The OEM Approvals that it carries and the codes (i.e. MB229.3, VW504.00, FORD 913a/b, BMW LL04 etc)
Ignore the marketing blurb on the label it is in many cases meaningless and we will explain later what statements you should treat with skepticism.
So, what does the above information mean and why is it important?

THE BASICS
All oils are intended for an application and in general are not interchangeable. You would not for example put an Automatic Transmission Oil or a Gear Oil in your engine! It is important to know what the oils intended purpose is.

VISCOSITY
Most oils on the shelves today are “Multigrades”, which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)

Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thin oil in winter and a thicker oil in the summer.
In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature.
The lower the “W” number the better the oils cold temperature/cold start performance. I.E. 5w is better than 10w etc
The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100 degC. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits.
Once again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.

SPECIFICATIONS
Specifications are important as these indicate the performance of an oil and whether it has met or passed the latest tests or whether the formulation is effectively obsolete or out of date.
There are two specifications that you should look for on any oil bottle and these are API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeens d’Automobiles) all good oils should contain both of these and an understanding of what they mean is important.

API
This is the more basic of the two specs as it is split (for passenger cars) into two catagories.
S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S) and diesel (C) specifications.
The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil are:

PETROL
SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.

SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.
SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits
SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards
SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
Note:
All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.

DIESEL

CD - Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only
CE - Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines
CF4 - Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine
CF - Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines
CF2 - Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines
CG4 - Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests
CH4 - Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels
CI4 Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.
Note:
All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.
If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4

ACEA
This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).
Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:
A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance
B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
B4 For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance
C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.
Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.

Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.

APPROVALS
Many oils mention various Car Manufacturers on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB, BMW, Ford or Vauxhall but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying top quality oil because of this.
Oil Companies send their oils to OEM’s for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.
Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:
VW – 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00
Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils
MB – 229.1
Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.
BMW – LL98
Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.

FINALLY
Above is the most accurate guidance we can give without going into too much depth however there is one final piece of advice regarding labelling.
Certain statements are made on labels that are meaningless and just marketing hype, here are a few to avoid!
Recommended for use where……………
May be used where the following specifications apply……………
Approved by………………………..(but with no qualification or specification)
Recommended/Approved by (some famous person, these endorsements are paid for)
Racing/Track formula (but with no supporting evidence)
Also be wary of statements like “synthetic blend” if you are looking for a fully synthetic oil as this will merely be a semi-synthetic.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for. The cheaper the oil the cheaper the ingredients, lower the performance levels and older the specs it meets so beware!

If you would like further advice then please feel free to ask here or contact us via our website or email."

Jakbyś chciał więcej wykładów, to daj znać

[NygusUK]

swinks, dzięki za info. Chyba jednak się źle zrozumieliśmy

Nie kwestionuję wyższości syntetyka - zwłaszcza w bardziej wymagających warunkach i jednostkach zorientowanych na tzw. "performance". Moje zapytanie dotyczyło jednak zasadności wydatkowania powiedzmy £50/bańkę syntetyka przy £12/bańkę pół-syntetyka biorąc pod uwagę moje warunki (tutaj ważniejsza będzie coroczna wymiana).

Druga kwestia, to skutki uboczne wlania syntetyka kiedy wcześniej nie jeździło się na nim: są opinie, że pełen syntetyk zadziała jak "rozpuszczalnik", efektem czego jest zwiększone zużycie oleju... nie wiem, czy to tylko mit (wiem - to już dyskusja nie na temat tutaj )

[Bury]

Po pierwsze proponowałbym wydzieli te wywody na temat oleju do jakiego innego tematu.
Tu mówimy o sklepach.


Kolego poczytaj na forum i zobacz ile osób przeszło na pełny syntetyk.
Robisz płukanie przed taką wymianą i jak masz zdrowy silnik to nic się nie stanie.
Grunt to wypłukac silnik najpierw,zeby syf nie latał w silniku wypłukiwany przez olej przez następny rok w Twoim wypadku.

Oleje z Twojego linka stosuje rownież,do samochodów należących do anglików,ktorzy i tak mają w nosie czy tam jest olej po frytkach czy inne smarowidło.

Teraz moje pytanie.Skoro robisz 5000 mil,to wymiana raz na rok i oszczednosc np 13 funtow robi zbawienie??Za to nawet flaszki wódki nie kupisz.Za to na bank za jakiś czas zadasz pytanie w temacie klepiących popychaczy

[NygusUK]

[Faraonix]

Wczesniej jezdzilem na castrolu magnatec 10W40. Przy przebiegu 100 tys. zrobilem plukanke silnika i zalalem Mobil 1 - 0W40. Zrobilem juz 5 tys. i jak narazie mam full jak przy zalaniu.

Kiedys mialem poloneza, lalem do niego Quaker State a pozniej Mobila. Autem zrobilem 230tys. i sprzedalem. Z silnikiem nic sie nia dzialo. Przy przebiegu 160tys. na A4 180 przekroczylem jadac na gazie. Silnik 1.6 fabryczny nic nie przerabiany wiec chyba w dobrej kondycji musial byc. Nigdy nic nie dolewalem. Olej zmienialem co 10tys.

Co do plukania. Kupujesz preparat lub 2 (w zaleznosci ile masz oleju w aucie). Rozgrzewasz silnik, wlewasz preparat. Na lekko podwyzszonych obrotach (nie na maxa) czekasz 5-15 minut (w zaleznosci od preparatu). Spuszczasz olej. Najlepiej duzej poczekac zeby dobrze sciekl. Ja zostawilem na godzinke. Zakladasz nowy filtr i wlewasz olej. Wszystko robilem na ulicy pod domem

[swinks_UK]

NygusUK, może krótko i rzeczowo...
Oto co bym zalecał:
1. silnika nie rozszczelnisz, rozpuścisz, czy co tam jeszcze. Masz MSS z 2004 wnioskując z profilu. Nowocześnie zrobiony silnik i jak najbardziej traktuj go syntetykiem.
2. pierwsze zalanie syntetyka i następna wymiana po 5k mil. syntetyk ma w sobie środki "piorąco-czyszczące" i po 1 razie nazbiera się w nim trochę szlamu, więc nie ma co czekać ze zmianą. Potem spokojnie 10k mil da radę. Dodatkową zaletą będzie to, że kanaliki olejowe w silniku odetkasz z parafiny i innego szlamu po pół-syntetyku (to tak naprawdę oleje mineralne wzbogacone).
3. Zalecane syntetyki wg. mnie to z zakresu: 5w-30; 5w-40, 10w-30; 10w-40. Najprędzej dostaniesz Castrola i Shella, ale nie po to podałem link do Opie Oils Ltd, by nie kupić tańszych, np. Fuchs lub Gulf. Sprzedaż wysyłkowa.

Pamiętaj, że to TYLKO rada: jak zrobić silnikowi w twoim aucie dobrze. Decyzja jest twoja.

[Faraonix]

z tego co czytalem to oleje 0W... zawsze sa syntetykami, 5W... najczesciej sysntetyk ale moze byc tez polsyntetyk, 10W... polsyntetyk, ale mozliwe sporadycznie minaralny, 15W.... zawsze mineralny.

Wg mnie na oleju nie ma co oszczedzac. W porownaniu do tego co place za paliwo, tax i insurance to niewielka kwota. Chyba ze planujesz za pol roku auto popchnac to co innego

[NygusUK]

swinks_UK i Faraonix Dzięki za rady i utworzenie nowego wątku...

[gem1]

[swinks_UK]